‘There is no shame in wanting to heal from pain, anxiety and depression’

CORK-based Deborah Oniah and Joanna Dukkipati are the proud creators of Good Day Cork’s Podcast ‘It’s Ok To Not Be Ok’, a 30-minute audio documentary created by migrant women for migrant women.

The podcast is a call for women to give up on the “A-List Performance”, as Deborah puts it, pretending to be on top of things, coping, always smiling. It is for women who are reluctant to acknowledge when they are not okay. It encourages them to talk about it, and to get the they need. The podcast offers particular to women coming from cultures where such topics are still stigmatised.

Beginnings

Deborah Oniah, a post graduate in trauma studies at UCC, chats with three guests on the show - Sibusisiwe Mhlope, Danielle McLaughlin and Sukhi Byrne.

The podcast came about when Joanna Dukkipati, founder of Good Day Cork, was looking for a radio intern. Deborah quickly went from being an intern to a co-creator.

“A couple of years ago, Deborah sent me an essay via WhatsApp about her own mental health,” recalls Joanna. 

It blew my mind because it was so raw and Debbie didn’t hide anything. We just jammed from there.

Deborah was very happy to share her own mental health experiences in the podcast, to counter the efforts people go to in order to cover up their struggles. It is exactly this openness that she hopes to encourage in others.

“There is certainly a culture of people, women in particular, doing everything they can to hide depression and anxiety. But we are all human beings and it is important we talk about mental health. In 2017, I got help through counselling. I also run with the Sanctuary Runners. Being part of a community helps us as humans are made to interact. I do meditation and yoga. Above all, I love learning. This is my bag of tools. I am out the other side and I want to share that.”

Migrant Women

The two women believe the country you are brought up in, where mental health may not be discussed openly, impacts how you approach it, regardless of where you might end up. So, the likelihood of migrant women seeking help in Ireland is low, even when such help is readily available.

Many migrant women are not allowed to say when they are not feeling OK; we are supposed to be strong all the time.

“You are expected to hide your feelings around your family. If you dare mention you are depressed, you are told to go and pray. I am a Christian but I can still discuss my mental health. Sometimes you just want to be heard.”

Deborah still believes there is a silence around mental health for migrant women in Ireland, even though the issue is tackled through services and in the media.

“I have been in counselling twice, first in 2017 and then in 2020. The first time I was ashamed to tell anyone, but I felt better after every session. Now I advocate that there is no shame in wanting to heal from pain, anxiety, depression and suicidal thoughts. If you are ready, there is somewhere to go in Ireland. But many migrant women are held back by the stigmas within their own cultures.”

The majority of Deborah’s guests are migrant women as the podcast is intended as a template for other migrant women.

“It comes with a trigger warning,” explains Joanna. 

We discuss themes of loneliness and isolation and trauma. It is like listening to two friends talking to each other. 

At times, they’re laughing, even when they’re discussing something really dire. We wanted it to be close and personal.”

An Older Generation

The two women are aware that the title of not ‘being okay’ might seem a bit hackneyed, but they highlight the difference between their generation and the younger one, particularly in migrant communities.

“Young people in Ireland are amazing. They can not only discuss their mental health, but are also protesting to get better services. We have a very different knowledge base. If my mother visits from India for a month, for instance, she can see that I am stuck between two different worlds. Here there is no stigma in accessing services, but in India there is,” says Joanna.

Deborah believes that the healthier the older generation, the healthier the younger generation: “When I arrived in Ireland, I was crying all the time. Sometimes my children would cry with me. I saw how it was affecting them. Then I started performing when they were around and crying my eyes out when they were in school, but my eldest son saw through it. I needed to end my A-List performance and get help. So I did. First for them, now for me.”

Deborah’s counsellor highlighted how often she was apologising for crying.

“She taught me that it is okay to be vulnerable. She kept on telling me that this was a new beginning and I started using those lines to reshape everything.”

Both women explain that they see boundary setting as key in their process.

Joanna says it is difficult to challenge aspects of your own culture, but it is important, nonetheless: “How I establish boundaries now is very different. I get rid of what is unnecessarily toxic. I call out any manipulation. Of course, there is always pushback, and the old family dynamic will always cause you to regress. It can feel like you have undone all the healing. But then you just go and journal the hell out of it,” she laughs.

“There are a lot of similarities between Ireland and India actually,” she continues.

Both cultures are very family orientated. We use similar language to express love and both cultures believe in honouring parents.

Deborah finishes our chat by honouring the new family one can make.

“I believe I have two families now. I have a new family – the women I chat with on the podcast. People like these, who you meet on your journey, never go away. I met these women in 2017 and they are still with me.”

The women hope to produce a second podcast and are currently seeking funding.